The way I perceive pantheism is very much akin to shamanism. The only reason I refer to myself as a pantheist rather than a shaman is that I don't have the cultural basis to do so. I've had no formal training in shamanism, have not met any shamans, and so I would not want to offend any through a misapplication of my beliefs/talents.
But pantheism as I understand is not a global spirital entity. All animate (all types of animals) and inanimate (rocks, trees, etc) objects possess individual spiritual energy. There are also the spirits of the dead and the "gods" and other unattached spirits, etc.
Anyone else think of pantheism in this way?
But pantheism as I understand is not a global spirital entity. All animate (all types of animals) and inanimate (rocks, trees, etc) objects possess individual spiritual energy. There are also the spirits of the dead and the "gods" and other unattached spirits, etc.
Anyone else think of pantheism in this way?
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Wed, February 4, 2004 - 4:17 AMWhat you're describing sounds more to me like animism, which is the belief structure within some forms of shamanism. Pantheism is about pan=all + theism=god/goddess, that all things are god(s) or the manifestations of god(s) . Animism is that all things are alive, have some form or consciousness or have spirits. -
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Wed, February 4, 2004 - 4:20 AMJust to clarify, some forms of shamanism may believe in pantheism, but in the ones I'm familiar with animism is much more common. -
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Thu, February 5, 2004 - 8:04 AMYes, I agree that animism is far more prevalent in shamanistic beliefs than in pantheism. Shamans believe that all things are 'spirit' but that there are seperate 'gods'. Such as Great Spirit. They believe that there is one creator who made everything that is before us. In patheism however, (as I believe it)every thing is an aspect of the divine. There is no creator seperate from the totality of the Universe. Everything is Divine and the Divine is everything. Having said this there are several types of Pantheism that I have read about. One of these is a very Darwinian approach and could possibly relate to the beliefs that you express.
I have studied with shamans before, and I would not call myself a shaman. I would not even say that I was rooted in that belief system. I find the seperation between that which is god and that which is earthly to be a huge divide for me. I cannot accept any kind of hierarchical spiritual system. To me, all things are equal in their spiritual energy and being.
All of this rubbish being said - pantheism is a very free approach to spirituality and therefore I don't think it really matters what you believe, as long as you believe in the infinite spirituality inherent in the Universe that surrounds us. -
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Thu, February 5, 2004 - 8:47 AMPerhaps it would be best to say exactly how I view the "spirit world" and you can say how best I fit in. It seems to me I must be both a pantheist and an animist.
I believe in the spiritual energy of individual things (animate and inanimate), and I also believe in greater spirits which may or may not be attached to the material plane. I also see all these individual spirits as a part of a larger spirit. Anyone familiar with the Gaia Principle will understand what I'm getting at, but I don't think it stops with the Earth or its inhabitants. The Earth is just one more piece in a larger puzzle.
I don't think I'm explaining this very well.
I can "talk" to plants and animals empathically. I interact with them on an individual basis just as I would interact with human people. At the same time, I see them as a network of energies and part of a larger whole. They're just more individually aware of the connection than most humans are, and I can "plug-in" to that network when I "talk" to them. Parts of the "network" can manifest itself as an individual too or form more "networks" with other manifestations, acting together as an individual with its own thoughts and agendas.
So I guess you could say I'm an animist in the micorcosm and a pantheist in the macrocosm?
Or not... I don't know. -
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Wed, June 15, 2005 - 1:02 PMYour also a very talented and open person if you are able to live that way... Wow, you made me jealous! :)
I hear what your saying about wanting to see where you fit in as far as existing belief systems but I'd like to challenge that and say why not just accept that yours is unique as it's based on your own experiences and conclusions.
Not that it's bad to know where you stand but still, it seems like it's way too easy to make labels that separate us as in, I believe 'this' and you don't so I'm not one of you, I'm one of 'them'. Or other nonsense.
Instead why not just focus on all the great stuff these belief systems have in common... that God is All there Is...
Hmmmm.
BTW, I just joined this tribe so I appologize if my thoughts and feelings are out of whack! =)
Peace -
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Fri, June 17, 2005 - 6:01 AMYES!! Excellent WhatThe?
I am quite reluctant to ever categorize myself as any one 'thing' because elements of the way I see are reflected in Taoism, Sufism, Buddhism, Animism, Humanism, Pantheism etc... The attempt to categorize, or label our experiences is a construct of the rational mind.
Don't try to fit your experience into anyone box because the Poetry of Experience is beyond ideology.
Also--remember that Shaman is one member of the Archetypal Magician family, which also include yogi, wizard, sage, guru, sheihk, dervish, witchy, Shaman, etc... All of the Archetypal Magicians stand with one foot in each world--receiving and translating what they see for their communities.
Think of yourself as a conduit. There is no need to compartmentalize such a wonderful being to fit into a cultural context because the gift itself is for all of humanity beyond cultural affiliation. -
-
Unsu...
On being a conduit
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 9:31 AMYes, I agree with your choice of defining words. Especially regarding this way of living as being beyond ideology and rational mind manipulations.
I do struggle with this however. I find the being a conduit is challenging when my human life is constantly influenced by so very many ideologies/dogmas/mindgames. It is the knoweldge and passion I have for Being that does see me through, yet can I just say that I am exhausted?
Merely attempting to express what I hold as truth through this medium takes it out of me. I think I ned to take my vitamins!
Greetings, btw. i'm new to tribe.net...
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Fri, August 12, 2005 - 9:54 AMI'm not sure the word "animism" is current any more; I know a lot of people in the Pagan world who consider it to be a bit condescending, sort of the way many biracial people prefer not to be called "mulatto." Does anybody else have any insight into this?
I ran across the word "hylozoism" on the Giordano Bruno tribe. It is a philosophical position that all matter is alive. (In this sense, it has commonality with Gaia Theory.)
My understanding is that "animism" is an anthropological word and "hylozoism" is a philosophical word--same concept, different disciplines? -
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Sat, February 25, 2006 - 12:24 PMthat's interesting, I can see where people might consider it condescending. I was unaware of "hylozoism", I'm glad you brought it up so I can look further into it.
I tend to be very similar in my beliefs as The Bibliophile. it's generally a combination of animisim and pantheism. I see everything as being a seperate and individual spirit, but they are all just a facet on the gem that is The All. that includes ourselves. one thing I've been thinking about a lot recently is how even though everything is a part of the whole, in my view, each individual spirit has it's own unique conciousness in order to experience a different aspect of existence. but since we are all part of the whole, the experiences are shared. I've been reading some interesting things to back this up recently. one thing that really got me thinking was the idea that The Great All, in an effort to further understand it's own existence and existence in general, divided itself into each seperate entity in order to most efficiently experience everything it can. and hence we share those experiences with eachother. even in real life, when you think about it, humans only really talk to eachother to share an experience. there's really no other reason to communicate other than to share an experience with someone else. there's been some studies that suggest we share experiences on a subconcious level as well that I found interesting.
all this makes sense to me. my own belief system is based soley on my own personal experiences. I don't ever take what others say and blindly believe it. I might explore it, but will not consider it part of my own beliefs until I fully experience it. it's ok to not fit into a label. besides, spirituality is a personal thing, and all that matters is what you make of it, no matter what that is.
-
Re: pantheism and shamanism
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 8:01 AMI think the use of the term "animism" by people who are not animist themselves could be viewed as condenscending, because of the attitudes of the people using the term and how the term is used. This might be true nearly any time a person defines a group of people they don't belong to or identify with - especially if they personally feel the the group they are describing is primitive, superstitious or morally flawed.
I think that sometimes people compare themselves to people with different beliefs, and instead of just saying, "That doesn't work for me," they get into a "better than" mindset. In other words, if they don't personally share a belief system, it must be an inferior belief system. Which is a sharme.
On the other hand, some will infer that if someone simply doesn't relate to their belief system, it must be a put-down of what they believe. Which is also shame, especially when it isn't true.
However, I think of myself as being somewhat animist, along with a lot of other things, and I don't see it as condenscending in that context.
-
-